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THED Talks
THED Talks
2.09 A Conversation with Madeline Michel
This week Jimmy talks with Monticello High School in Charlottesville, VA drama teacher and the 2019 Excellence in Theatre Education TONY Award winner Madeline Michel! She shares her experiences working with diverse students, her non-traditional approach to how her classes are offered, and some no nonsense pearls of wisdom!
[inaudible].
Speaker 2:Well hello everyone and welcome to fed talks. This is Jimmy Chrisman, your host of the podcast and I have a fantastic episode for you today. This is episode nine of season two. Thank you for listening and thank you for joining us for the new episode that talks is a podcast for theater teachers and theater education students. Each week I bring you stories and interviews from experience K-12 theater teachers, current theater education majors and professors, a theater education that
Speaker 3:well hopefully warm your heart, renew your faith at teaching and provide resources to better your practice in your theater classroom. I have a fantastic episode for you today and I don't want to waste much more of your time. I do want to thank you for listening. Thank you for tuning in and I hope you are enjoying your, your second quarter for those of you out there or you're halfway through the first semester and fall weather is setting in for lots of people. So I know we're gearing up for a competition season for those of you who, uh, compete and, uh, in those festivals around the country. So I wish you all the best and uh, I hope you are taking care of yourselves and that you are getting a rest when you can and you're eating right and you're drinking lots of water and taking all of your vitamins and all those good things, but that are occasionally doing something good for you. My interview this week is with the excellence in theater education. Tony award winner, Madeline Michael, she won this past June and uh, I got the, I had the pleasure and the opportunity to speak with her about two weeks after she won and I'm finally getting to air this episode with you. And I am so excited. She is no nonsense. She holds nothing back and, uh, she's just a Spitfire. Her kids are so, so blessed to have her and uh, her heart is definitely in everything that she does with his kids. So I do hope,
Speaker 2:enjoy this conversation. I hope you get a lot out of it. And, uh, thanks again for listening. Here's my conversation with Madeline Michael
Speaker 4:[inaudible].
Speaker 5:I would like to thank the Broadway league, the American theater wing and Carnegie Mellon university for this award. I'm proud to share this award with my students at Montebello high school
Speaker 4:[inaudible].
Speaker 5:I share this award with Josh sane Hill, who like everyone else in Charlottesville, suffered through the white supremacist violence of August, 2017 and like everyone else in the black community, he was not surprised by it. That fall he wrote the rap narrative one act play a King story set. Against the backdrop of that tragic summer. I share this award with Courtney grooms who galled by her classmates Confederate flag t-shirts wrote the play necessary trouble. The title inspired by civil rights icon Congressman John Lewis. I share this award with Kayla Scott who experienced racial profiling in our increasingly gentrified city. From this came her award-winning play, hashtag wild black. I share this award with Sadie as lane who thought he was exclusively a basketball player and now as an integral member of our city's community theater, I share this award with Alex Espinosa, a dreamer who fell in love with in the Heights and is now a college theater major. I share this award with a Maya Taya Asia Atol yacht, Mo Asia, who never saw girls that looked like them on high school stages and have now set the standard for all students in our community. I share this award with Tyler, Abigail will Zoe Laurel fervent allies of their peers of color who never asked the question. What about me? This award is for all of the students who have found their voice and who speak for themselves, their families and their community through theater and playwriting. I thank you all for allowing me to accompany you on this journey, a journey that I invite everyone to follow on Instagram at Monte cello drama 19
Speaker 4:thank you.[inaudible].
Speaker 3:Well, I am excited to welcome to fed talks this morning. Madeline Michael, she is, excuse me, I should say Tony award winning mantle and Michael, she just recently like just like two, almost two weeks ago, won the fifth Tony award for excellence in theater education. She teaches at Monticello, is that correct? Monte cello. Monticello is in[inaudible], North Carolina, so Monticello high school in Charlottesville, Virginia. And I'm just delighted that she had some time to talk with me this morning. So Madeline, if you would just introduce yourself, tell us a little bit about where you teach, um, kind of how long you've been teaching, a little, a little bit about your program.
Speaker 6:Okay. So I've been teaching at Monte cello for about 12, 13 years. Um, but I taught way before that. I started my teaching career in Baltimore at Northwestern and Frederick Douglass high schools. And I think that kind of was what shaped, um, the way I look at teaching. And, um, I kind of got into theater in a sort of a backdoor way through, um, through[inaudible]. I love for a writing and history and, um, and social issues.
Speaker 3:Well, well, I, and I know you and, uh, you incorporated a lot of that into what you currently do. Uh, Monticello. Yes. Um, can you, can you talk a little bit about that and what you, what you do with your students and I guess what led you to being recognized for, for your,
Speaker 6:what I do things really differently from most people. Like first of all, my classes aren't sequenced. Like most, most schools have like, you know, acting one and acting too. And um, I used to, I tried that the first couple of years, drama one drama two drunk three. And what I found was that, um, well first of all, some people couldn't even get into the class that they were supposed to be in because of, you know, high school scheduling. But also then what you're doing is your, um, you're kind of gatekeeping and you're preventing the bond that's so beautiful that can exist between freshmen and seniors. And so what I do now with my class, it's harder because you have to keep redoing your, um, you have to keep redoing your, your syllabus, you know, your content. But, um, what I do is I have ninth through 12th graders. Anybody who can fit into that class period. It's all just one class. And, um, and I have four of them. So yeah, it's pretty cool.
Speaker 3:That is, that is really interesting. It's actually very different than pretty much what we're taught from, uh, from our theater ed programs and, and like in our student teaching. Um, cause I never took any, like, remember I never took any theater classes. Right. Which was, which is what I, I just, I love that fresh perspective.
Speaker 6:I mean, is it a friend? Some people would call it a fresh perspective. Some people would say like, why is she even doing this? But, um, I do, I mean, I remember being in theater and I remember why I quit my theater class that I took, why I dropped it. And so I, you know, I keep that stuff in my head and I did, you know, I did take a lot of literature class, so I did read a lot of plays. Um, but I don't know, when I first took over this, when I first took over this department, it was the least diverse group of kids I had ever seen. And I thought, wow, this is not, this isn't representative of what our school should look like. And so I sort of made that my challenge. Like, you know, let me get some people of color, let me get some people who speak different languages. Let me get some boys into this program.
Speaker 3:Well, and, and how has that worked out for you? Mean obviously well, but like, like what are the benefits that you've seen in your program and how has that,
Speaker 6:Oh my gosh. Okay. So I can't, I can't explain the, like the, the tangible difference, the vibrancy that's brought about by having, um, so many different perspectives as so many different languages, so many different backgrounds. Um, first of all, people learn about each other. Like you shouldn't be walling yourself off into one little group. I've learned so much. I mean, if I didn't have these kids in my class, Oh Graham, selfishly, I wouldn't
Speaker 3:be as enriched a person as I am. So as they're supposedly learning from me, I feel like I'm[inaudible] earning at least as much from them. How do you, how do you adjust for and, and, and work into what you're doing with your students? The, the different ability levels within'em?
Speaker 6:Good question. Okay. So first of all, grading is completely immaterial to me as far as I'm concerned. If you're engaged, if you're participating, everybody should be able to get an a in my class, grading is the worst thing that I have to do. It's arbitrary, it's ridiculous. Um, I kind of give them a grace period because sometimes people just need to watch for a long period of time and sort of, um, you know, get their footing and sometimes people are shy for two years and then all of a sudden feel the confidence to break out. So, um, I kind of have a very low pressure kind of, um, program and um, and also people are good at different things. Like some people are dancers and choreographers and that's what they want to do. So I'm going to not put them on the spot and make them do a monologue. If they don't want to do a monologue, if they want to choreograph a piece of music, let them do that. So yeah, that's how I work. I can tell you an interesting story. Do want, please do so. Um, right after, uh, August, 2017 okay. Um, this boy Josh sane Hill, he was 16 years old at the time. Very, very bright kid. Really interesting young African American who had just been my lead in, in the Heights the year before. And um, he started to write a play in, um, in rap narrative because he's, he's a rap artist and um, and then this happened and then this horrible, this horrible murder of Heather higher on this horrible white supremacists of offices. Violence happened. And so, and he was already working on a play about police brutality. And so he sort of, um, made a little bit of a detour and sort of rewrote a lot of what he had written and made it, um, tapes a place in Charlottesville after the, the white supremacist violence. And, um, apparently it this, the idea of this play about police brutality offended. There was, there was a backdrop that we had made, a set piece, um, that had said like KKK and then a picture of the pigs, a picture of a pig space and it offended the, a certain segment of the community here. And before I knew it, there was a, um, a talk show host, a local talk show host who was, um, privately reaching out to this boy, Josh, and trying to bait him into coming on his show and debating him. I mean, this is like a 50 something year old man trying to bait a 16 year old kid into, you know, on a right wing talk show. So, um, we, we put a stop to that and what, what wound up happening? We had to have police protection at our show because parents were afraid that somebody would come in and do something really awful. Um, and there was a lot of, um, a lot of discord in the community about it, but it wound up being such a great experience because everyone who came to see the show found it uplifting and, um, and really loved it. And that includes our PO, our police officer who was in our building. So it was just, um, you know, social media just blows things out of proportion. Um, but, but I will say this, we had to have a meeting, um, someone in the upper echelons of our administration and central office organized a meeting with my students and some local police officers. And um, that my students came away feeling very disrespected from that meeting. It was not a well handled meeting. It was not a very well arbitrated meeting though. Um, and I was not allowed to be any kind of, um, I was, I was told to just be quiet and take notes and I was not allowed to be vocal at all during that meeting. I would say it was definitely mansplained at that meeting. So, but the, you know, but what my kids learned from this, this is so interesting though because I don't have to say much to them. They learn on their own and they often teach me, I have a limited perspective. I'm not a young black person. So what I learned from them is to kind of shut up and listen.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I, I have a couple of questions that branch off of what you just talked about that I'd like to go into. Um, and I don't really know the proper order to do them, but I'll just, we'll just go with them. Um, can you talk a little bit for teachers and young teachers or veteran teachers who, who may have to deal with their administration on, on some touchy topics and, and strategies in ways that you, you can, you can do that the most professional way.
Speaker 6:Well, for me, I think I established a reputation of being an advocate for all kids and I mean all kids, everyone. And once you establish that reputation, it's, it's not like I have a particular agenda. My agenda is student expression, whatever that expression is. So I think that that people didn't bother me too much because my administration knows that I am for all kids and that I will bend over backwards to give everybody an opportunity. And I think that's where it all begins. That you, you have to be that person to be willing to, um, represent all kids.
Speaker 3:Mike, my second question off of what you were talking about is, um, the, the representation of, of all the diversity with your students in, uh, not just the, what you do in class with the student choice of, of work that they, that you give them but also in the production material. Um, can you speak to a little bit about how that has helped your program and, and, and the benefits of that and what it's done for you?
Speaker 6:Oh my gosh. So I have had kids, I've had, um, a student in a wheelchair who couldn't move any of his limbs. I've had students who have like, um, this, you know, serious cognitive challenges. I have a student who, um, who has a lot of, um, I mean I have a lot of students who have certain challenges, certain they're on the spectrum or whatever. First of all, I get to know the families. Like that's my first step always. If you get to know their families, then you find out what, what is the student's strengths. I mean, I found out that one of my students had this incredible ability of you can tell him your birthday and he can tell you in years in advance. Like you can say, my birthday is August 17 and he can tell you five years from now what day your birthday will fall on. So and like to, to a degree, like a hundred percent accuracy. But I wouldn't does known this if I didn't make an effort to get to know him and his parents. So I think that's where it begins is to welcome families into your program and to get to know them to go outside. Like when my kids get picked up in the evening, I go outside to the cards and I meet everybody's families and you know, that's where it starts. That's how you learn about people. You have to get to know their families.
Speaker 3:Like I, I can hear, I can hear young teachers and even veteran teachers still who would say, I don't have the time to do that. What would you say to them?
Speaker 6:Right. And I understand, I totally understand, but I think you have to cut corners in other areas. Like I'm not a perfectionist. I have a lot of colleagues who are, you know, they will travel to, um, you know, upstate New York to get the right kind of hat for their productions or whatever. You know, I just let things like that go if my costumes aren't perfect, whatever. Um, I just have to focus my energies in other ways.
Speaker 3:Well, and it sounds like that doing that pays off in great dividends down the road.
Speaker 6:Oh, it does.[inaudible] you know, I have to say, I have some colleagues that I learned a great deal from. Um, I have a really close friend who's a lot younger than I am, and he works at Charlottesville high school and I learned a lot from him because he's actually, you know, has a master's in theater pedagogy. So I learn from him. And then, um, we have this, uh, live arts, um, uh, community theater and the director of live arts is a friend of mine, mine. So I learned from her like, I know what I don't know. And I have no idea. I'm not embarrassed at all by what I don't know. And I'm not embarrassed to ask anyone to help me because how else will I learn?
Speaker 7:Exactly. Yeah. Well with, with such diversity and, and great things that you're doing with your kids, what do you see as the greatest need in your students or just students in general right now? Gosh, the greatest need is two.
Speaker 6:The greatest need is to, um, I would say in middle school I should say probably be teaching in middle school. I feel like that's where things take a plunge because, um, you know, we work a lot with the elementary school. Our school is right across the street from a really diverse, wonderful elementary school that has this great language immersion program. It's such a great school and the kids are so excited and they're so happy and they love school. But then when I asked my students, when did you last love school? It was definitely fifth grade. And then something changes. And then, you know, and maybe it's because school gets harder, but I think it's more than just school getting harder. I think that our focus becomes less for joy and more for, um, I don't know, it becomes more punitive like weeding people out, being gatekeepers. Um, you know, what they call it. Punishment is now consequences that it's really just punishment wrapped up in a different word. So, yeah. So some people, I know some people in my school think that I'm way too easy and Oh, it's okay for her to be easy because she's a drama teacher. But I was the same way as an English teacher. I'm really not any different. I'm the same way as a parent and none of my kids are in prison.
Speaker 7:I have three of them will end. And what can we as theater teachers do to help with that?
Speaker 6:Um, you know it's funny cause I joined this theater teacher Facebook group not too long ago and then after awhile I had to leave it because it felt really toxic and competitive. And I think that's part of the problem. Theater shouldn't be competitive, but that's our paradigm. You know, you have to pick a one at play and you have to go into competition. Like, why it's seater, why does it have to be a competition? Why can't you just have a festival and enjoy each other's work without somebody having to win best this or best that? And, and so yeah. So I left that group because it felt like, um, half the people were just kind of bragging about what they did. And the other half of the people were, um, sort of, uh, you know, like shaming people for not knowing certain things. Like they were shaming me because I used the word drama instead of theater to describe my program. I said it's monotone drama. And they're like, when will people stop using drama and start using theater? Come on people. That's what I have to say that
Speaker 7:I appreciate that. Um, well, and when we, when we strip that joy that you were talking about away from our students as they, as they get older and, and when they leave that fifth grade area and then by the time they get to us when we were in high school that that joy is stripped away from them. But then in turn it also strips it away from us a bit because we're, we're fighting to put it back in or we're fighting to conform to what's expected of us as the system.
Speaker 6:Right. I've had many people say to me as well, like, why don't you do, do more of the classics? Because I don't do any of the same fit shows that my, my colleagues do. But I mean, and they do a great job of it, but you know, it's a matter of taste and it's a matter of what do I think we'll pull in the most interest. I'm sort of, I have that Montessori mental pality probably because I sent all my kids to Montessori preschool, Montessori three schools. So I just tried to figure out what interests my kids and if, if this sound of music doesn't interest them, that I'm not going to do that. So that's how I gauge what I do. And I, and as a result, I have so much fun. I have so much find at my job because my students are so creative. I can just sit back and watch them go. I never hire a choreographer. I never, never, ever, because my students can dance and they can choreograph and they're amazing.
Speaker 7:So yeah, I just sit there and watch them enjoy. Well, tell me about one of your absolute favorite stories. I know you shared one a little bit ago about the, um, the white supremacist stuff. Um, but what, just maybe a funny story from your career, a horror story, a most meaningful moment for you?
Speaker 6:Um, you know, honestly, the most meaningful thing for me is when students, when I won the Tony award, I heard from students that I had had sort of lost touch with from years back who posted things like, um, I hated school so much. And if it weren't for Ms. Michael and her program, I would have dropped out. Or, you know, it was Michael. I wouldn't be the person I am today, if not for you. And stuff like that makes me feel like, wow, yay, I'm on the right track, I'm doing something good. So I guess those are my highlights. And of course there's the horror stories of like three days before you open a show and everything's going wrong. And I turned to my husband and I say, I have to leave town because I can't, I can't be in this town when this shit goes. Oh yeah. There's horror stories for, for all of that. Um, but you know, honestly, I feel like, um, like right now, okay, it's the summer and I'm working with two different groups of playwrights and we've got two plays in. Um, and, and I'm a little bit nervous about it because you never know, you know, this has to be ready by the end of August. And, um, and if not, then I have to choose a play. I have to go online and find a P a one act play, which is a horrible experience from the few times I've had to do it because one act plays or very few. And they usually have a cast of about five and they're not usually very good. Um, so, and not very relatable for my students. And, and then, you know, a lot of times people take a full length play and cut it down, but then you're losing so much of the good stuff. So I depend on my writers and right now I'm working with two groups and I'm just hoping that it'll all come about.
Speaker 3:I was, um, as you were just talking, I was thinking about, uh, cause I, I taught for 17 years. I taught high school theater for 17 years before moving,
Speaker 6:if not look old enough for that. But go ahead.
Speaker 3:I appreciate that. Um, but I, uh, I remember at our final like awards night and um, they, of course they, they did a big to do for me and made this beautiful quilt for me that's hanging in front of me right now. And, uh, some of the, the those seniors that year put together this video of all these past students, um, who sent in a video. That's beautiful. It was, I was bawling like a baby. Um, but it was, you know, there, there were the faces on there that I would expect to see if I were told that that was being put together. The ones that I, I knew, you know, I knew I made a difference in, but I think the ones that hit me the most were the ones that I didn't expect to see. And, and, and the things that they said that I provided for them, um, through what we did and in my class and on stage that made a difference in their lives. And so whether we realize it or not, we're always making some kind of impact on kids. And, and I think that's really attribute to the amazing things that you've done with your kids, with what they responded to you, um, when you, when you're toning. Thank you. Yeah. So, so tell me a little bit about that and what that was like for you.
Speaker 6:Oh my gosh, I don't like to be the center of attention, which is really weird because I think the first 25 years of my life were dedicated to being the center of attention. I don't know how I matured to this point, but I don't like being the center of attention. Um, so it was a little bit embarrassing. The whole thing was a little embarrassing, but everyone so nice. And I think the nicest part of it for me, um, was when actors that I have admired for a long time, like Laura Linney came up to me and congratulated me and I thought, wow, Laura Linney cares about what I do this and Samira Wiley and it, you know, it, it, they really did. They liked my speech. I could like, I really got to good reaction from my speech. And these were people who seemed really sincere. They were the opposite of like the typical pay attention and to me, theater types. Um, so I've had a really good feeling about all of them. It was a nice evening and I got to hear'em and off the cuff and off the cuff karaoke of 96,000 by Christopher Jackson and, um, Anthony Ramos. So that was really cool.
Speaker 3:Oh wow. Well, it was really fun. Well, I love, I've talked to two of the pest Tony winners and they have had just the coolest stories of when they found out they won. Can you talk about what that was like for you?
Speaker 6:Mine was not that cool, but I mean, I was in my principal's office. He called me in and my principal is such a typical, he's such a nice man, but he's such a typical like white football coach, middle-aged kinda guy, like with a crew cut and um, he's not your, you know, he's not a theater guy. So, uh, he called me in to talk about next year's show ostensibly. And um, and then he took a phone call and I thought, Oh gosh, you know, I have to get back to class and you know, he's taking a phone call. And then he said he was gonna he said to the woman, well, I'm okay, I can talk to you now, but let me put you on speaker phone. And I thought, this is really unprofessional. Why would I don't even know this person? And now I'm going to be listening into a conversation. So I thought the whole thing was really weird. And then it turned out to be the woman from the Tony's. And I was, I was kinda speechless. I was just so shocked because I never expected, because like I said, I don't have some of the credentials that some of my colleagues have. I mean, you know, there are people with PhDs in theater teaching in high school theater programs or college theater programs. And I was really shocked. But well, you know, what really put it over was, um, this boy, of course it was a student. It was this boy Luka Huff, who's a, um, a 10th grader. He's a rising 11th grader who is an incredible videographer. And I said to him, I need a three minute video to send to this Tony awards thing and do it. And I didn't give him any suggestions than he did the whole thing himself. And he came up with something that's so perfectly expressed our program. So again, typical student work.
Speaker 7:That's amazing. That is so, so cool. Um, well I know it's, it's only been almost two weeks, but have there been any, um, any doors that have opened for you or any opportunities that you've had because of this?
Speaker 6:Well, it's really funny because my Alma mater, university of Rochester called and they were like, Oh, can we interview you for the Rochester review? And it was making me laugh cause I've never even looked at the Rochester of June. Now I guess I'm going to have to read it, but like people, this is small town and I went in to get my car. Like I went into Jiffy lube the other day and there was a woman in there carrying a baby and she said, Oh, congratulations on your Tony award. All these people, I can't stand on the corner without people going by and saying congratulations on your tone. The award. And it's really funny because I realized that this is a pretty small town and everybody, you know, reads the same websites. So yeah. So it's been kind of cool. And other opportunities, um, Carnegie Mellon is providing us with some great opportunities and they are lovely people. And also somebody from the, um, the Broadway league is trying to help me put together a New York trip for my students. So yeah. So, um, yeah, so there's great opportunities here and, and I met people, you know, I'm not afraid to ask people to, you know, knock on some doors and, you know, ask people for opportunities for my students. So.
Speaker 7:Well you've uh, I just have a few more questions for if you don't mind. Um, what, um,
Speaker 6:wait, I have to tell you something first, I once had a boy come over to my school. He didn't go to my school. His mother brought him to my school. She did not speak very much English at the time. They were from the Dominican Republic. He was a professional breakdancer in the Dominican Republic. He was 14 and they brought him over because they had heard that he could get some opportunity on at my school that he couldn't get it, his own school. And he wound up going to governor's school and having, you know, all kinds of opportunities. And then he wound up transferring from his school to our school because he was definitely on track, not to graduate school because they put him in ridiculous classes for a kid who could not even speak English. They put him in a class, he had to read Shakespeare come on now. Anyway. So it was just amazing because there are very few schools where he would have had the opportunity to be a dance star on a stage. But we do shows like, you know, in the Heights and um, West side story and leap of faith and a lot of other, a lot of other dance centered shows. And he wound up being an absolute star. And it was just because, because his mom had heard that that's what we do, that we make a space for whoever needs a space. Um, and he was one of my favorite students and dance like nobody's business. So anyway, but those are the kids that, um, that I, I go ahead and like recruit for cause those are the ones that make, uh, any show better.
Speaker 7:Well, and it's so important for us as the theater teachers too, to be open and to, to allow that space for that to happen and then allow work to happen in our spaces that, that allows them to express that. Um, and so it sounds like you, you provide that for them and, and what a tremendous opportunity for them.
Speaker 6:I mean, I have so many migrant students and they are some of the most brilliant and creative and hardworking and kind people. And um, so it's really, and, and they're going through a really difficult time because we have, you know, a lot of very ugly descore going on, um, that has been targeting them. And I can't think of anybody who would be a better citizen than those students. He's in my program.
Speaker 7:That's amazing. Well, for, you've had, you've had a long, wonderful career so far, and how do you, how do you take care of yourself emotionally and physically want to come to work every day and give this 110% of your kids all the time?
Speaker 6:Okay. So I have a husband that I've been married to for 33 years. And we only knew each other 18 days before we got married.
Speaker 7:Wow.
Speaker 6:So I know, isn't that crazy? Don't try that at home. But he does. He's an engineer and a data scientist and all this like nerdy mathematical stuff. So he helps, he helps with the, um, he helps with my kids to teach them sound engineering and building, you know, how to build things and how to rig things. And I couldn't do anything without him. He is such a nice person. He's a great human being. And I have three kids who are really good people, like incredibly nice people. So that's the foundation of my life
Speaker 7:that, that family support and the, that foundation, like you just said, is so, so important. And, and if we don't have that, then we take the work is gonna that's gonna show. And, and so I appreciate hearing that. Well, what is a resource that you use that other theater teachers absolutely have to know about?
Speaker 6:Yikes. Okay. Now you're really putting me on the spot. Um, let's see. I, Oh wow. Okay. This sounds crazy, but I go back in my national, um, all right. I'm going to tell you, um, a resource is I read everything political and historical. Like for me, my greatest resource is reading articles about history and articles about, um, all the things that impact that's my students' lives. And I, and I make them try to be aware of it too so that we can have really good discussions and debate in our class. Um, and I think my experience with national history day, which is an organization that I used to belong to and I used to do all the time, it was an unpaid position. I used to be a national history day coach, but that paradigm of, um, research and primary sources and interviewing people and like it, I like to invite people into my classroom. I recently, I had a friend of mine who's a, um, she's a legal aid lawyer and she did a presentation in my class for my students. And that's the kind of thing that I feel is you couldn't, you probably couldn't find in a lot of classes bringing people in who have that kind of experience, you know, do it somebody to come in and do a workshop. I have so many friends in this community who are so talented and know so much, and I love to bring them into my classes to meet my students and to do so. I have a friend who does Alexander technique stuff and she did a workshop one day. Um, so yeah, I have a lot of, a lot of people. OK. um, even people that, even things that I'm skeptical of, I had a girl come in and do a owl workshop, which was really interesting. Um, so, you know, I do it for my own selfish reasons so that I can learn. So that's what I would say. My resources bring people in from your community. Um, and people should know what kids do these days too. Like I listened to my kids, they eat lunch in my room. I know I have no illusions. I know what kids do. I know what they don't do. And teachers need to know that kids are not reading what they give them to read the reading spark notes. They're copying each other's work. And so the best hope you have of getting kids to actually read stuff is to find pieces that are in some way relevant to them. And they could be short pieces, short pieces, or great short scenes from a play or whatever. But, um, but if you think they're reading Jane Eyre, they're not. That's all I'm saying.
Speaker 3:Well, what you just said sparked another, another question for me, um, with, with the current political state that we have in our country and, and, and the national discourse, uh, that's taking place and then, and the, all the negativity that's out there, how, how do you see that impacting your kids?
Speaker 6:It's really stressful. You know what, what really made me realize how stressful it was. I went to pick up one of my students, I drive them home and I picked them up a lot of the times because they have transportation issues and that's why a lot of kids can't join after school things. You have to make it first of all, financially feasible. They have to be able to still work and still and be able to come to rehearsals like twice a weekend. It's okay for them to keep their job. Um, but I went to her house to pick her up and I noticed a huge one of those huge convex mirrors outside and has an every house I passed. It was a, was a trailer park, um, with a lot of, um, Latino students living there. And every house I pass had a huge convex mirror. And I said, Whoa, what does this mirror for? Everybody has a mirror. And she explained to me that when her dad goes somewhere at night, he can just look in the mirror and check to make sure that his tail lights are both working so that he won't get pulled over. Wow. So that's something really stressful that I don't have to think about. You know, another thing that happened to me was I had to, um, black male students in my car once. And I noticed that everywhere we drove, I was just chatting away and I didn't notice anything. They always noticed where the police cars were. You know, here comes a police car, here comes the police car and that certainly is stress or that I don't have, I never noticed that. I've never had any issues. So, yeah.
Speaker 3:So am I fine. My final question for you is what are your parting words of wisdom for new theater teachers? We're even veteran theater teachers in the field to keep them going.
Speaker 6:Oh gosh, I'm the last one to give advice because really I just like, I hate that whole concept of giving advice. Um, so I would just say this, don't be ashamed of what you don't know and w like we all have weaknesses. So figure out where you can find hell and get the help and don't be ashamed to ask for help because you know, we all have our strengths and weaknesses.
Speaker 3:I think that some of best advice if
Speaker 6:we want to call it that it can be given cause that's so important. And so a really nice guy. So like I want to just continue being friends with you. So let's keep in touch.
Speaker 3:I would love to do that. I would love that. Well, thank you so much for talking with me today.[inaudible] well, there you have my interview with Tony award winning Madeline Michael of Monticello high school in Charlottesville, Virginia. Thank you Madeline for taking that time to talk with me. I really, really appreciated it and I hope you all out there listening to the interview. Got a lot out of that and uh, um, just as big of a fan as Madeline of Madeline as I am. So thank you Marilyn again for taking that time this summer and working with me and my schedule and, uh, I hope you are proud of what we have here. So thank you. Thank you so much for listening and tuning in each week and checking out every new episode. If you haven't caught up on past episodes, please do that. Uh, you can find all of our past episodes, all of the transcripts from past episodes and each of the, the, the teachers who have joined us resources, um, have found on our website www.fedtalks.com. That's T H E D talks, T a L K s.com. You can go on any of your favorite podcast providers, Apple podcast, iTunes, Google podcast, Google play, Spotify, Stitcher, any pod, and tune in, um, go on any of those, subscribed to the show, rate us, review us, tell us what you're liking about it and most importantly, share it with those theater educators in your life. Thank you so much for listening. We do have coming up very, very soon. Our first couple of entries for a, so this just happened, uh, it is, uh, teachers writing in talking about situations that have happened in their theater classrooms and uh, liking different, wanting different perspectives on how to handle those things. So my friend Miriam Kurkendahl and I are um, looking over the entry so far and we will be bringing those first few to you if you want to submit some, uh, some topics for us to talk about, uh, with your questions in scenarios and situations we would love to hear from you. Just go on the website that talks.com and click on. So this is, so this just happened and uh, there's an online form there for you just to give us your situation. Tell us your story and uh, let us know if you would like to be part of that conversation when we have that on the podcast. So thank you so much again for listening. You can interact with us on, on all your social media, on Twitter, at theater ed talks. You can find us on tumbler fed talks.tumblr.com to find us on Facebook at fed talks, Instagram at fed talks podcast and of course our website, www.fedtalks.com. You can always email me@thetedtalkspodcastatgmail.com let me know your questions. If you have any, if you want to be a guest on a show coming up, um, topics for show ideas for in the future, I just want to hear from you. Reach out@thattalkspodcastatgmail.com and uh, let me know what you're thinking. This has Benjamin Chrisman. Thank you for. Thank you Joel Hamlin.
Speaker 2:Joshie serif for the use of your songs, magnetize and flip the record that we use here on the show. Very grateful to you and I'm grateful to you all my listeners out there for listening to the podcast each week and, uh, interacted with, thank you so much. I'll give a great week for things are going well for you and take care of yourselves and your kids.